It's almost 10 years since I graduated college 

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 04/06/2018 at 14:56 • Filed to: None

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But I didn’t knew the educational system no longer teaches kids how to read or that it banned fiction books.

Also, I’m not gonna start on the gun fetish, this country has, I’m too peaceful and comfortable right now.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:04

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I enjoyed reading Catcher in the Rye and To Kill a Mockingbird. But we can agree to disagree about the bible being in schools. 

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/06/2018 at 15:12

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The fact that it’s Jewish fiction, doesn’t change the point, obviously.

Spanfeller is a twat > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:13

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Religious texts and/or imagery should be removed from all schools unless it’s a student wearing some sort of religious costume.

We fought a civil war over the barrier between church and state and we seem to be loosing, Benito Juarez must be rolling in his grave

Edit:

We fought two civil wars againts the church, I confused the Cristero conflict with the Reform war.

BTW, in one of those conflicts the Mexican Government was helped by the KKK... which I find absolutely inappropriate.

Derpwagon > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:14

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*makes a comment about the educational system*

*fucks up grammar*

well done.

bhtooefr > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:16

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Actually, as someone who generally thinks that the amount of guns in this country is way too damn high... I think some firearms training beyond NRA-sponsored victim-blaming slogan-blasting (Eddie Eagle and “stop, don’t touch, leave the area, tell an adult”) would be a good thing to have in schools, if we’re going to have this many guns around.

I don’t mean teaching kids to shoot, but I do mean teaching kids how to be safe around found firearms, and teaching kids what firearms do in real life, to illustrate why you don’t fuck around with them.

Spanfeller is a twat > bhtooefr 04/06/2018 at 15:18

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This is America, instead of teaching about very fun, but potentially deadly things, we teach abstinence.

fintail > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:22

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How does one “use” a book of crazy stories?

Oh yeah.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:22

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The problem with this kind of person is they generally don’t read what that book actually does say. Because most of the shit that they spew is directly contradicted by it.

Also guns are still kind of taught in some schools since there are still some schools that have competitive shooting teams.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:25

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The US doesn’t have a gun problem, we have a mental health problem. Or lots of them. Multigeneration old problems.

interstate366, now In The Industry > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:28

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When I was in school (about 15 years ago now) the Bible was allowed to be taught only as long as books from other religions also were.

Chariotoflove > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:31

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My daughter attends a Catholic grade school, so religion is part of her curriculum. Of course that’s my choice as a parent to give my kid a faith education.

Aside from that, I think it’s a shame to not allow study of the Bible in public schools. People are so good at freaking out over separation of church and state that they forget it can be used for the secular study of literature and history quite apart from a tool to inculcate faith. The history of religion in civilization is a huge part of the history of the human race (the Bible stories are also interesting as anecdotal records of archeological history). If we want to learn about ourselves as a species, we should study all of our past and present, or we miss out big time.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > interstate366, now In The Industry 04/06/2018 at 15:37

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Books from other religions? Okay.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 15:37

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My public school did allow it (in the early-mid-00s), on the condition that we also studied books from other religions, which I believe is how it should be done.

BigBlock440 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/06/2018 at 15:39

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Also guns are still kind of taught in some schools since there are still some schools that have competitive shooting teams.

But they’re completely outside of school hours and only tangentially related to the school, at least mine was. The only thing we had to do with the school was we were all students there and a teacher was our adviser/coach, unlike the other sports teams.

BigBlock440 > fintail 04/06/2018 at 15:42

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You open it, point your eyes at it and imagine the ink that’s inside of it are things you recognize as words. That’s the intended use of any book.

interstate366, now In The Industry > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 15:43

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I think your fedora might be on a bit too tight.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 15:51

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The stories from so called holy books are as relevant to history as astrology is to astronomy. Even if you hear some hystorical names and places, the facts are altered and biased in a way that makes those who come in contact with them, lose touch with reality.

The lack of separation between the church and the state could endanger future development of individuals and the future of the whole world.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > BigBlock440 04/06/2018 at 15:56

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Thus the “kind of”...I know none of the schools I went to had a shooting team, it seems pretty rare to have one these days.

Chariotoflove > interstate366, now In The Industry 04/06/2018 at 15:58

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Agreed. My wife describes her religion class in Catholic high school as study, comparison, and evaluation of major religions. The goal was not to indoctrinate blind faith, but to understand what is behind faith and evaluate it with analytical mind. The advantage of this for the Catholic Church is manifest: people who are taught blind obedience to a belief system often tend to rebel and reject it as they develop their world view in adulthood. People who understand the history and structure of the system are much more likely to take ownership when they grow up and make their own choice to believe.

The secular benefits are also obvious (and there are many non-Catholic students in Catholic schools). The better we educate our children about human nature, the better product our education system produces.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Spanfeller is a twat 04/06/2018 at 15:58

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Because teaching abstinence works so well with other topics...

My bird IS the word > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 16:02

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god forbid anyone understands, say, muslims so that we can make appropriate foreign policy decisions. or tolerance or something.

A really “intelligent” person shouldn’t fall for that malarkey anyway /s

fintail > BigBlock440 04/06/2018 at 16:02

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Yeah, you’d need an imagination.

I was thinking in Murka you either use it as a basis for regressive puritanism, or throw it at people as a weapon. Some of the old versions are pretty big, and would leave a mark. Oh, looks like the former is the real life use case.

My bird IS the word > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 04/06/2018 at 16:03

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Humanity has a mental health problem.

Chariotoflove > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 16:08

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But the study of religious texts has nothing to do with the separation of church and state. I think your rejection of holy texts of any religion misses something very important. Religion has been a major driver of human action throughout history as far back as it has been recorded. The writings from those religions are windows into the nature of human thought and behavior, whether or not and to what extent the stories are based in any kind of historical fact. Just look at Greek mythology for only one example. Most of the philosophy that shaped the early ages of scientific development was couched in the context of religious belief. People still study those religious beliefs to this day as part of the study of natural philosophy, even though no one believes in The Greek gods or the Titans before them.

There really is no need to fear religious texts. They’re not some horrible poison that will contaminate the minds into which it comes in contact. To hold so doesn’t give enough credit to the minds of students.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 16:15

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Every couple of years a school does a comparative world religion segment in their class and some parents get huffy as hell about the Islam segment. Most recently it was two ladies; google Chatham Middle School. The school pointed out hey we covered Judaism and Sikhism and Christianity but of course these ladies are suing now...

Chariotoflove > My bird IS the word 04/06/2018 at 16:17

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That’s a good point. We probably need to study current world religions and their origins now more than ever, with globalization being a fact of life. If we reject all religion, we reject a part of what defines the self-identies of a large number of people in the world, and those people with it. I would propose that our lack of broad religious education contributes to the intolerance that we see in large segments of our US population.

Chariotoflove > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 04/06/2018 at 16:19

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I think that story emphasizes just how much we need religious ed as part of our curriculum. People seldom embrace diversity until they understand it.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 16:20

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Studying the bible in a Catholic school makes sense. In a public school with students of many different religions it doesn’t. Go ahead and offer a general religion course as a elective option but making every student at a public school study the bible is only going to cause issues.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/06/2018 at 16:21

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Those would be really cool if they didn’t have the Star Wars logo plastered on the cover.

Chariotoflove > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 04/06/2018 at 16:25

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Well you wouldn’t study only the Bible. That would be short sighted and incomplete. What I’m saying is that I’d be supportive of a treatment of religious texts as a part of literature and history classes. An elective to delve deeper into those subjects sounds like a good idea, if enrollment is big enough to support such a class.

My bird IS the word > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 16:33

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Regardless what your opinion is, religion has basically influenced every aspect of world culture for the entirety of history, and still continues. Ignoring it or dismissing it as absurd outright ignores all that plus the philosophical quandary of human existence.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 16:35

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Any way you try to implement it as part of the main curriculum you are going to cause issues. Teach the bible and you upset people of other religions. Teach everything and you draw out the crazies who think you are trying to brainwash their kids. The best way to go about implementing religious studies are to make them optional and something the students opt into. Basically what I am saying is that no student should ever be forced into studying a religion if they don’t want to.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 16:37

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Third eye opened! knowledge is power.

Chariotoflove > My bird IS the word 04/06/2018 at 16:51

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Pretty much.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 04/06/2018 at 16:53

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but thats how you know they are canon

Chariotoflove > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 04/06/2018 at 16:54

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I see your point. On the other hand, we force students in high school to study books they don’t want to read all the time because of what they teach us about thought. I remember being forced to read transcendental poetry in sophomore English. That was fairly painful.

Anyway, I don’t think you necessarily need the direct study of religious texts as a major part of the curriculum. Just that we shouldn’t shy away from them as much as people seem to do currently.

Chariotoflove > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper 04/06/2018 at 16:54

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So then, is too much knowledge super power?

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Chariotoflove 04/06/2018 at 17:25

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On one level, yes.

duurtlang > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/07/2018 at 00:28

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From the perspective of a non-believer, the best thing you can do is to let kids read the whole damn thing. No better way to put people off religion than an entire uncensored holy book. They only tend to hear some cherry picked quotes shaped into a narrative the parent/pastor/priest/whatever wants to spread. Let them read the whole damn thing and the absurdity of it all is much more likely to sink in.

Having said that, IMHO the state should remove itself entirely from teaching religion. This includes every state funded school, but it excludes teaching ABOUT religionS. Religions influenced our history, religious conflict shapes our world and lack of ‘foreign’ religious knowledge breeds misunderstanding to racism. I think every kid should be taught about the current major world religions plus Judaism and whatever smaller religions are relevant locally. That will help create a better more tolerant citizen.